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	<title>Comments on: Art, with an &#8220;I&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/03/art-with-an-i/</link>
	<description>Photography and the Creative Life</description>
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		<title>By: Is Photography Art? &#171; A Photoblog by Monte Stevens</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/03/art-with-an-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1480</link>
		<dc:creator>Is Photography Art? &#171; A Photoblog by Monte Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 04:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=803#comment-1480</guid>
		<description>[...] will always be a debate about this question. My intent is not to start a debate but to share this post by Guy Tal. He presents a good point and I like this statement, &#8220;The art is in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] will always be a debate about this question. My intent is not to start a debate but to share this post by Guy Tal. He presents a good point and I like this statement, &#8220;The art is in the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Links &#8211; April 2, 2010 &#171; Beautiful Flower Pictures Blog: Floral Photography by Patty Hankins</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/03/art-with-an-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1470</link>
		<dc:creator>Links &#8211; April 2, 2010 &#171; Beautiful Flower Pictures Blog: Floral Photography by Patty Hankins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=803#comment-1470</guid>
		<description>[...] Guy Tal has Art with an &#8220;I&#8221;  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Guy Tal has Art with an &#8220;I&#8221;  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Grecian</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/03/art-with-an-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1457</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Grecian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 01:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=803#comment-1457</guid>
		<description>I really like your photographer-writer analogy. It&#039;s one I&#039;ve thought about myself. We all have access to the same dictionary of words with meanings provided and a thesaurus to boot and yet to write poetry requires something more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like your photographer-writer analogy. It&#8217;s one I&#8217;ve thought about myself. We all have access to the same dictionary of words with meanings provided and a thesaurus to boot and yet to write poetry requires something more.</p>
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		<title>By: David Leland Hyde</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/03/art-with-an-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1455</link>
		<dc:creator>David Leland Hyde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=803#comment-1455</guid>
		<description>In a 1979 letter to retired Outward Bound river guide and landscape photographer Chris Brown, Philip Hyde wrote that many landscape photographs tend to have too many elements in them and are “not tightly enough organized.” Philip Hyde went on to say: 

“Because it is big in scale does not mean that it can’t have impact as an intentional photograph. The camera only sees one frame at a time, and unless you get into some of the multiple-image techniques, you’ve got to rely on one image to make the impression. I tend to be careful in my own work, not to yield to the easy temptation to over-dramatize things just to make this impression—and as a corollary, I also tend to be less impressed with the group led by Ernst Haas, who make their point by highly romantic over-dramatics. They go too far, I think, but certainly something more than pointing the camera and making a snapshot is indicated. Snapshots have their place, but I assume at the outset that you want to make a deeper impression, create something that communicates a little more powerfully. The only recipe I know for it is a four-letter word: work (experience, practice).”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a 1979 letter to retired Outward Bound river guide and landscape photographer Chris Brown, Philip Hyde wrote that many landscape photographs tend to have too many elements in them and are “not tightly enough organized.” Philip Hyde went on to say: </p>
<p>“Because it is big in scale does not mean that it can’t have impact as an intentional photograph. The camera only sees one frame at a time, and unless you get into some of the multiple-image techniques, you’ve got to rely on one image to make the impression. I tend to be careful in my own work, not to yield to the easy temptation to over-dramatize things just to make this impression—and as a corollary, I also tend to be less impressed with the group led by Ernst Haas, who make their point by highly romantic over-dramatics. They go too far, I think, but certainly something more than pointing the camera and making a snapshot is indicated. Snapshots have their place, but I assume at the outset that you want to make a deeper impression, create something that communicates a little more powerfully. The only recipe I know for it is a four-letter word: work (experience, practice).”</p>
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		<title>By: Chinle</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/03/art-with-an-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1444</link>
		<dc:creator>Chinle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=803#comment-1444</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s really important is how you feel when you&#039;re out there doing it. That&#039;s happiness. That&#039;s surrounding yourself with beauty. That&#039;s purity. That&#039;s all that really matters.

If you just happen to bring someone else along for the ride when they see your image, well, then it becomes art. Art is simply the transfer of emotion by its creator to another by some medium.

But you don&#039;t need an audience to have art, you can simply view your work again later and reinvoke how you felt out there while creating it, it&#039;s still art, but just a tad more personal.

Nice photo, Guy, beautiful colors, motion, and joi de vivre. I&#039;d call it art, it makes me feel free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s really important is how you feel when you&#8217;re out there doing it. That&#8217;s happiness. That&#8217;s surrounding yourself with beauty. That&#8217;s purity. That&#8217;s all that really matters.</p>
<p>If you just happen to bring someone else along for the ride when they see your image, well, then it becomes art. Art is simply the transfer of emotion by its creator to another by some medium.</p>
<p>But you don&#8217;t need an audience to have art, you can simply view your work again later and reinvoke how you felt out there while creating it, it&#8217;s still art, but just a tad more personal.</p>
<p>Nice photo, Guy, beautiful colors, motion, and joi de vivre. I&#8217;d call it art, it makes me feel free.</p>
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		<title>By: Roberta</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/03/art-with-an-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1443</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=803#comment-1443</guid>
		<description>Right on! Anyone can pick up a paintbrush and slop paint around on a canvas, but it doesn&#039;t make them an artist or the end result of this activity art. I also really like Bob&#039;s comment about artist&#039;s expressing themselves amidst the grandeur of a landscape. I live an hour away from the Rocky Mountains and often get asked why I don&#039;t have more mountain images in my portfolio - that is always the reason why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on! Anyone can pick up a paintbrush and slop paint around on a canvas, but it doesn&#8217;t make them an artist or the end result of this activity art. I also really like Bob&#8217;s comment about artist&#8217;s expressing themselves amidst the grandeur of a landscape. I live an hour away from the Rocky Mountains and often get asked why I don&#8217;t have more mountain images in my portfolio &#8211; that is always the reason why.</p>
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		<title>By: Guy Tal</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/03/art-with-an-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1441</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy Tal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=803#comment-1441</guid>
		<description>Robert, thanks for the response! Please take a moment to re-read my post (and others like it on this blog). You&#039;ll find that I agree with you completely.

Guy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert, thanks for the response! Please take a moment to re-read my post (and others like it on this blog). You&#8217;ll find that I agree with you completely.</p>
<p>Guy</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Berdan</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/03/art-with-an-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1440</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Berdan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=803#comment-1440</guid>
		<description>Sorry Tal - but I completely disagree with you that photography is not or can not be art. I would agree that not all photographs are art, just as not all paintings or writing is art. Just because anyone can create a photograph by pushing button doesn&#039;t mean that photography is not art. If you argument is that because anyone can do it - it can&#039;t be art. Well - lets see anyone can pick up a pencil and draw circle, almost anyone can write a few lines of text and surely they don&#039;t qualify as art?

Good photography requires an understanding and application of the principles of design - this takes intuition, study and experience. While anyone can take a photograph after buying a camera, I would argue anyone can also play a couple of notes on a new musical instrument after purchasing it - though it&#039;s certainly not art or music until the person becomes much more skilled. The same is true in photography - it takes a lot of time and experience to take great photographs.  

An artist is someone that uses their craft (writing, painting or photography) to express themselves and how they feel about a subject. What constitutes good art is highly debatable, especially when one studys art by so called photography masters. I have seen photographs by the best photographers that I would label as crap. The point is good art is something that holds are attention, it makes us feel and then it makes us think. A photograph can do that. Also historically their have been two schools of photography - the realists or documentary photographers and the pictorialists or those that feel they can manipulate images in processing, printing or computer. Both are valid in my opinion. So called documentary photographers also manipulate their image by choosing different lenses, shooting in black and white or selecting different filters and angles. When will photographes realize, we don&#039;t see the same way a camera sees - we see in colour and we have stereo vision. Our brain processes the images so that even two people looking at the same thing see them differently. A camera is a tool which in the hands of a skilled artist can result in art. My cameras have yet to go out and take any pictures themselves. 

Of course if you want to believe that photographers are just technicians that is up to you. You might want to check out David Hockneys book, secret knowledge - he suggests that many of our greatest painters used optical devices, lenses and mirrors to assist them. Yet it&#039;s still art. 

I wish good photographers would stop saying that photography can&#039;t be art because we use a tool. Writers use pencils, typewriters, word processors - these are also tools, but without human input do not produce art.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Tal &#8211; but I completely disagree with you that photography is not or can not be art. I would agree that not all photographs are art, just as not all paintings or writing is art. Just because anyone can create a photograph by pushing button doesn&#8217;t mean that photography is not art. If you argument is that because anyone can do it &#8211; it can&#8217;t be art. Well &#8211; lets see anyone can pick up a pencil and draw circle, almost anyone can write a few lines of text and surely they don&#8217;t qualify as art?</p>
<p>Good photography requires an understanding and application of the principles of design &#8211; this takes intuition, study and experience. While anyone can take a photograph after buying a camera, I would argue anyone can also play a couple of notes on a new musical instrument after purchasing it &#8211; though it&#8217;s certainly not art or music until the person becomes much more skilled. The same is true in photography &#8211; it takes a lot of time and experience to take great photographs.  </p>
<p>An artist is someone that uses their craft (writing, painting or photography) to express themselves and how they feel about a subject. What constitutes good art is highly debatable, especially when one studys art by so called photography masters. I have seen photographs by the best photographers that I would label as crap. The point is good art is something that holds are attention, it makes us feel and then it makes us think. A photograph can do that. Also historically their have been two schools of photography &#8211; the realists or documentary photographers and the pictorialists or those that feel they can manipulate images in processing, printing or computer. Both are valid in my opinion. So called documentary photographers also manipulate their image by choosing different lenses, shooting in black and white or selecting different filters and angles. When will photographes realize, we don&#8217;t see the same way a camera sees &#8211; we see in colour and we have stereo vision. Our brain processes the images so that even two people looking at the same thing see them differently. A camera is a tool which in the hands of a skilled artist can result in art. My cameras have yet to go out and take any pictures themselves. </p>
<p>Of course if you want to believe that photographers are just technicians that is up to you. You might want to check out David Hockneys book, secret knowledge &#8211; he suggests that many of our greatest painters used optical devices, lenses and mirrors to assist them. Yet it&#8217;s still art. </p>
<p>I wish good photographers would stop saying that photography can&#8217;t be art because we use a tool. Writers use pencils, typewriters, word processors &#8211; these are also tools, but without human input do not produce art.</p>
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		<title>By: bob cornelis</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/03/art-with-an-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1437</link>
		<dc:creator>bob cornelis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 15:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=803#comment-1437</guid>
		<description>I was just having this very conversation with another photographer yesterday! I agree, it&#039;s the involvement of the photographer and their intent that make it art. You could set up a camera in a random location, connect an intervalometer to it and fire off a shot every few seconds. At some point you might get an image that, when view out of context, could be coveted by viewers as fine art. It might be a great shot. But would it be &quot;art&quot;?

I like the definition Tim&#039;s friend uses - art, craft and soul. In my example, I&#039;m not sure any of them are in play (maybe craft to some extent). Certainly no soul and few, if any, would ascribe the term &quot;art&quot; to the result.

So the artist is the crucial element. That&#039;s why I&#039;m always looking to find the artist in their work. And, to be honest, there is a lot of photography that is so much about the subject that I can&#039;t find the artist at all. 

A lot of landscape photography falls in this category for me, because it is so easy and tempting to just set up the tripod in front of a beautiful scene and capture it literally. Yes, it&#039;s a pretty shot, but where is the Soul? Most landscape photographers love the outdoors and they seem to mostly be capturing the scenes that remind them of why they like being there. But more is needed. I might like cultivating roses, but if I just set up my camera in front of beautiful roses and take the photograph, the pictures might be beautiful but I suspect they would be a little one-dimensional. I think it&#039;s actually harder to do really good landscape photography than other genres for this reason. It&#039;s such a challenge for the artist to find a way to express themselves in the midst of all that grandeur. There is great landscape photography out there, I just think there are a lot of &quot;scenic&quot; captures that leave me wanting more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just having this very conversation with another photographer yesterday! I agree, it&#8217;s the involvement of the photographer and their intent that make it art. You could set up a camera in a random location, connect an intervalometer to it and fire off a shot every few seconds. At some point you might get an image that, when view out of context, could be coveted by viewers as fine art. It might be a great shot. But would it be &#8220;art&#8221;?</p>
<p>I like the definition Tim&#8217;s friend uses &#8211; art, craft and soul. In my example, I&#8217;m not sure any of them are in play (maybe craft to some extent). Certainly no soul and few, if any, would ascribe the term &#8220;art&#8221; to the result.</p>
<p>So the artist is the crucial element. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m always looking to find the artist in their work. And, to be honest, there is a lot of photography that is so much about the subject that I can&#8217;t find the artist at all. </p>
<p>A lot of landscape photography falls in this category for me, because it is so easy and tempting to just set up the tripod in front of a beautiful scene and capture it literally. Yes, it&#8217;s a pretty shot, but where is the Soul? Most landscape photographers love the outdoors and they seem to mostly be capturing the scenes that remind them of why they like being there. But more is needed. I might like cultivating roses, but if I just set up my camera in front of beautiful roses and take the photograph, the pictures might be beautiful but I suspect they would be a little one-dimensional. I think it&#8217;s actually harder to do really good landscape photography than other genres for this reason. It&#8217;s such a challenge for the artist to find a way to express themselves in the midst of all that grandeur. There is great landscape photography out there, I just think there are a lot of &#8220;scenic&#8221; captures that leave me wanting more.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Parkin</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/03/art-with-an-i/comment-page-1/#comment-1435</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Parkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 13:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=803#comment-1435</guid>
		<description>Totally agree.. 

Much of photography is craft. There is nothing wrong with craft, it takes a certain sort of brain to learn craft well. Once the craft has become instinctive, it becomes a part of you; This is when &#039;you&#039; can create art rather than trying to convince the camera to create art.

I think this is what people like Picasso learned formal fine art; to get past the process/craft and remove the barriers that they place in the path of creativity. The artist can then apply as much or as little of the craft as they think necessary to achieve their vision.

A colleague splits his photography into three parts, Art, Craft and Soul. Art is the communication of soul through craft. The description may sound trite but I like it..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree.. </p>
<p>Much of photography is craft. There is nothing wrong with craft, it takes a certain sort of brain to learn craft well. Once the craft has become instinctive, it becomes a part of you; This is when &#8216;you&#8217; can create art rather than trying to convince the camera to create art.</p>
<p>I think this is what people like Picasso learned formal fine art; to get past the process/craft and remove the barriers that they place in the path of creativity. The artist can then apply as much or as little of the craft as they think necessary to achieve their vision.</p>
<p>A colleague splits his photography into three parts, Art, Craft and Soul. Art is the communication of soul through craft. The description may sound trite but I like it..</p>
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