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	<title>Comments on: The Art of Copying</title>
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	<description>Photography and the Creative Life</description>
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		<title>By: Bob Fisher</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/05/the-art-of-copying/comment-page-1/#comment-1645</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 20:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=859#comment-1645</guid>
		<description>As a follow up on this, I&#039;ll share an experience I had this past weekend.  

I was participating in an art show.  There were a few other photographers in the show as well.  I&#039;d gone around early in the first day to take a look at other people&#039;s booths to see what variety of art and artisans were in the show.  Stopped by one photographer&#039;s display and chatted for a few minutes.  Later in the second day, he came to my booth and as we were talking he was looking through some of the prints I had for sale.  There were a few of old cars.  He looks at them and says &#039;hey, I&#039;ve got that same shot only of a blue car&#039; and &#039;I&#039;ve got that one too, only of a red car&#039;.  He showed them to me on his iPhone.  The two of us had taken almost identical shots of the same model cars just in opposite colours (mine were red and blue to his blue and red).  Two people, never having met before, never having been aware of the other or the other&#039;s photography, living hours apart had basically the same shots.

I wonder if, in many cases, it&#039;s not so much a matter of copying or trying to copy (I saw your follow up Guy in which you expanded on what you were referring to by copying); but rather whether there just aren&#039;t (m)any original ideas left.  I was in a gallery last summer looking at some work of a Canadian photographer who prints large images on metal.  The gallery had a catalogue of some of his other work.  Looking through the catalogue, I saw some shots that were eerily similar to some I&#039;d taken earlier in the day and also had planned to print on metal.  

Maybe we all just think alike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a follow up on this, I&#8217;ll share an experience I had this past weekend.  </p>
<p>I was participating in an art show.  There were a few other photographers in the show as well.  I&#8217;d gone around early in the first day to take a look at other people&#8217;s booths to see what variety of art and artisans were in the show.  Stopped by one photographer&#8217;s display and chatted for a few minutes.  Later in the second day, he came to my booth and as we were talking he was looking through some of the prints I had for sale.  There were a few of old cars.  He looks at them and says &#8216;hey, I&#8217;ve got that same shot only of a blue car&#8217; and &#8216;I&#8217;ve got that one too, only of a red car&#8217;.  He showed them to me on his iPhone.  The two of us had taken almost identical shots of the same model cars just in opposite colours (mine were red and blue to his blue and red).  Two people, never having met before, never having been aware of the other or the other&#8217;s photography, living hours apart had basically the same shots.</p>
<p>I wonder if, in many cases, it&#8217;s not so much a matter of copying or trying to copy (I saw your follow up Guy in which you expanded on what you were referring to by copying); but rather whether there just aren&#8217;t (m)any original ideas left.  I was in a gallery last summer looking at some work of a Canadian photographer who prints large images on metal.  The gallery had a catalogue of some of his other work.  Looking through the catalogue, I saw some shots that were eerily similar to some I&#8217;d taken earlier in the day and also had planned to print on metal.  </p>
<p>Maybe we all just think alike.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Sieren</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/05/the-art-of-copying/comment-page-1/#comment-1603</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Sieren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 23:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=859#comment-1603</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m that photographer that said the quote on facebook.

&quot;A landscape photographers best work will always be something that can not be duplicated by another professional, everything else is just practice.&quot; 

Guy, I think you have misconstrued what I mentioned into something it is not.  As landscape photographers we copy, copy, copy, I doubt there is anyone out there who hasn&#039;t done it once.  In the end when we are done and unable to create new art are rarest work will be valued the most just like baseball cards.  The rare ones are the ones that hold value, we should value are rarest work.  Every photographer has a piece of work that can not be duplicated.  Students practice by mimicking their mentors.  This is the way I learned to create art but I value my own art the most that was not created by an attempt to duplicate another photographer.  Every photographer is free to let go of their art of copying state and return to it whenever he or she pleases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m that photographer that said the quote on facebook.</p>
<p>&#8220;A landscape photographers best work will always be something that can not be duplicated by another professional, everything else is just practice.&#8221; </p>
<p>Guy, I think you have misconstrued what I mentioned into something it is not.  As landscape photographers we copy, copy, copy, I doubt there is anyone out there who hasn&#8217;t done it once.  In the end when we are done and unable to create new art are rarest work will be valued the most just like baseball cards.  The rare ones are the ones that hold value, we should value are rarest work.  Every photographer has a piece of work that can not be duplicated.  Students practice by mimicking their mentors.  This is the way I learned to create art but I value my own art the most that was not created by an attempt to duplicate another photographer.  Every photographer is free to let go of their art of copying state and return to it whenever he or she pleases.</p>
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		<title>By: Man Ray On Art And Originality &#187; Landscape Photography Blogger</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/05/the-art-of-copying/comment-page-1/#comment-1600</link>
		<dc:creator>Man Ray On Art And Originality &#187; Landscape Photography Blogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 12:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=859#comment-1600</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;The Art of Copying&#8221; from Guy Tal Photography Web Journal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;The Art of Copying&#8221; from Guy Tal Photography Web Journal [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Copying Discussion Follow-Up &#124; Guy Tal Photography Web Journal</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/05/the-art-of-copying/comment-page-1/#comment-1589</link>
		<dc:creator>Copying Discussion Follow-Up &#124; Guy Tal Photography Web Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 May 2010 16:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=859#comment-1589</guid>
		<description>[...] earlier post, The Art of Copying, generated some eloquent and thought-provoking comments both on the site and via email. Though I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] earlier post, The Art of Copying, generated some eloquent and thought-provoking comments both on the site and via email. Though I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Copying Other Photographers Images; Good, Bad, Legal? &#124; Pro Nature Photographer</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/05/the-art-of-copying/comment-page-1/#comment-1579</link>
		<dc:creator>Copying Other Photographers Images; Good, Bad, Legal? &#124; Pro Nature Photographer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 May 2010 12:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=859#comment-1579</guid>
		<description>[...] Borland  Copying Other Photographers Images; Good, Bad, Legal?I recently read with great interest Guy Tal’s post about copying others images and some points he emphasized about photographers and photography. As [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Borland  Copying Other Photographers Images; Good, Bad, Legal?I recently read with great interest Guy Tal’s post about copying others images and some points he emphasized about photographers and photography. As [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Leland Hyde</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/05/the-art-of-copying/comment-page-1/#comment-1578</link>
		<dc:creator>David Leland Hyde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 04:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=859#comment-1578</guid>
		<description>Guy, you have again written a well-considered pertinent post. The opinion that any image that is copyable is not art will ultimately play out in overly-dramatic, affected work. If you look at a lot of Philip Hyde&#039;s work you may notice that it is the most copied work in photography. Dad was often the first to capture many significant locations in color. Though he purposely chose unusual or hard-to-reach tripod positions, many of those after him somehow still came up with the same framing. Philip Hyde&#039;s style is widely acknowledged to have influenced a generation of photographers. While the photographers of that generation are still working, I believe that Galen Rowell influenced the current generation of photographers dominating the internet now. All you have to do is compare the images to see it. Galen Rowell wrote a lot about photography, yet his photographs, because of their difficult accessibility and often dramatic lighting or unique conditions, are much less copyable. The irony is that Galen Rowell himself did not consider his photography art for years, and even later on sort of decried the idea. Much of Philip Hyde&#039;s work on the other hand was documentary, though that does not necessarily make it any less artistic. Philip Hyde was interested in capturing the land &quot;AS IT WAS&quot; not turning it into a work of art by imposing his own sensibilities on it. Though he left behind the notions of his training with Ansel Adams, Edward Weston and Minor White, he could not help but compose photographs with powerful lines, forms, patterns and other artistic structural elements, evident in any visual fine art. Any photographer who presumes to consider himself an artist would do well to study the history of art to notice how often the same themes recur as a newer master incorporated elements of a previous work. Photography is the only visual art, where the creators of the art continually are up in arms with each other for “copying,” and necessarily so. In other visual arts it is considered an honor, but in photography, there are so many amateurs who believe that just because they made a photograph from the same position with the same equipment, they captured the same image. Usually it is inferior in some way: not quite as much sheen on the desert varnish or the light is not quite the same or some other flaw is evident that does not honor the original photograph but degrades it. The line of thinking you refer to from the forum you read may have stemmed from the knowledge that in the old days of art, it took a high level of mastery to copy or even partially emulate a great masterpiece. This is why various masters made a practice of honoring the greats who came before them by taking their themes and repeating them or borrowing from them in some way. Today, with the advances in cameras and processing technology, just about anyone can go out and equal what took early photographers a great deal of skill to capture. This does not decrease the artistic value of the early work. Ultimately it is a compliment to the pioneer landscape photographers for newer photographers to photograph the same locations and similar subject matter, but as Guy has emphasized here and before, come up with your own framing, create your own vision, do something unique, and don’t justify going around copying other great photographs by saying they were not art in the first place. That is just plain unimaginative and unprofessional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guy, you have again written a well-considered pertinent post. The opinion that any image that is copyable is not art will ultimately play out in overly-dramatic, affected work. If you look at a lot of Philip Hyde&#8217;s work you may notice that it is the most copied work in photography. Dad was often the first to capture many significant locations in color. Though he purposely chose unusual or hard-to-reach tripod positions, many of those after him somehow still came up with the same framing. Philip Hyde&#8217;s style is widely acknowledged to have influenced a generation of photographers. While the photographers of that generation are still working, I believe that Galen Rowell influenced the current generation of photographers dominating the internet now. All you have to do is compare the images to see it. Galen Rowell wrote a lot about photography, yet his photographs, because of their difficult accessibility and often dramatic lighting or unique conditions, are much less copyable. The irony is that Galen Rowell himself did not consider his photography art for years, and even later on sort of decried the idea. Much of Philip Hyde&#8217;s work on the other hand was documentary, though that does not necessarily make it any less artistic. Philip Hyde was interested in capturing the land &#8220;AS IT WAS&#8221; not turning it into a work of art by imposing his own sensibilities on it. Though he left behind the notions of his training with Ansel Adams, Edward Weston and Minor White, he could not help but compose photographs with powerful lines, forms, patterns and other artistic structural elements, evident in any visual fine art. Any photographer who presumes to consider himself an artist would do well to study the history of art to notice how often the same themes recur as a newer master incorporated elements of a previous work. Photography is the only visual art, where the creators of the art continually are up in arms with each other for “copying,” and necessarily so. In other visual arts it is considered an honor, but in photography, there are so many amateurs who believe that just because they made a photograph from the same position with the same equipment, they captured the same image. Usually it is inferior in some way: not quite as much sheen on the desert varnish or the light is not quite the same or some other flaw is evident that does not honor the original photograph but degrades it. The line of thinking you refer to from the forum you read may have stemmed from the knowledge that in the old days of art, it took a high level of mastery to copy or even partially emulate a great masterpiece. This is why various masters made a practice of honoring the greats who came before them by taking their themes and repeating them or borrowing from them in some way. Today, with the advances in cameras and processing technology, just about anyone can go out and equal what took early photographers a great deal of skill to capture. This does not decrease the artistic value of the early work. Ultimately it is a compliment to the pioneer landscape photographers for newer photographers to photograph the same locations and similar subject matter, but as Guy has emphasized here and before, come up with your own framing, create your own vision, do something unique, and don’t justify going around copying other great photographs by saying they were not art in the first place. That is just plain unimaginative and unprofessional.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Goodrich</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/05/the-art-of-copying/comment-page-1/#comment-1573</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Goodrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 00:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=859#comment-1573</guid>
		<description>Great points as usual Guy. I absolutely love the image. I am going to need to visit you next spring to find some badland color.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points as usual Guy. I absolutely love the image. I am going to need to visit you next spring to find some badland color.</p>
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		<title>By: Yousef Ismail</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/05/the-art-of-copying/comment-page-1/#comment-1572</link>
		<dc:creator>Yousef Ismail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 20:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=859#comment-1572</guid>
		<description>Guy,

Interesting as alwyas, but I can&#039;t seem to get this thought out of my head since reading this post - 

Parody is the highest form of flattery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guy,</p>
<p>Interesting as alwyas, but I can&#8217;t seem to get this thought out of my head since reading this post &#8211; </p>
<p>Parody is the highest form of flattery.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl D</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/05/the-art-of-copying/comment-page-1/#comment-1570</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 06:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=859#comment-1570</guid>
		<description>Hey Folks,

Landscape photography is a subject based criteria. An equivalent in music might &lt;em&gt;&#039;sad songs&#039;&lt;/em&gt; or &lt;/em&gt;&#039;protest songs&#039;&lt;/em&gt;. What&#039;s interesting is that we imagine we can draw some kind of delineation between photographers taking photos of mountains and photographers taking photos of some other subject, and then compare it to a style of music composition based largely on form - structure and style. 

Photography is not performance art. If someone here can sell tickets to watch their next photo shoot, I&#039;ll be impressed.

Cheers

Carl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Folks,</p>
<p>Landscape photography is a subject based criteria. An equivalent in music might <em>&#8216;sad songs&#8217;</em> or &#8216;protest songs&#8217;. What&#8217;s interesting is that we imagine we can draw some kind of delineation between photographers taking photos of mountains and photographers taking photos of some other subject, and then compare it to a style of music composition based largely on form &#8211; structure and style. </p>
<p>Photography is not performance art. If someone here can sell tickets to watch their next photo shoot, I&#8217;ll be impressed.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Carl</p>
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		<title>By: Photo This &#187; Read This for 05.07.2010</title>
		<link>http://guytal.com/wordpress/2010/05/the-art-of-copying/comment-page-1/#comment-1568</link>
		<dc:creator>Photo This &#187; Read This for 05.07.2010</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 21:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guytal.com/wordpress/?p=859#comment-1568</guid>
		<description>[...] not what you&#8217;re thinking [The Online Photographer] - Landscapes, copying, and infighting [Guy Tal] - MIT museum gets Polaroid archives [The Online Photographer] - Classic images (mostly photos) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] not what you&#8217;re thinking [The Online Photographer] &#8211; Landscapes, copying, and infighting [Guy Tal] &#8211; MIT museum gets Polaroid archives [The Online Photographer] &#8211; Classic images (mostly photos) [...]</p>
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